Ep 350: Learning & Development Programs w/ Elizabeth Greene

Welcome to the Workology Podcast, a podcast for the disruptive workplace leader. Join host Jessica Miller-Merrell, founder of Workology.com, as she sits down and gets to the bottom of trends, tools, and case studies for the business leader, HR, and recruiting professional who is tired of the status quo. Now, here’s Jessica with this episode of Workology.

Episode 350: Creating Learning and Development Programs With Elizabeth Greene From Lam Research

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:00:26.69] Just today as I’m recording this, it was announced that unemployment claims are the lowest that they have been in the last 50 years. Not only is this market as challenging as it was before the pandemic in terms of finding qualified applicants. But there’s a new wrinkle in this, which includes the remote or virtual component. So finding talent is challenging enough, but training and retaining them is equally a challenge, which is where learning and development really comes into play. So welcome to the Workology Podcast today. My name is Jessica and I’m excited to talk to you about all things related to learning and development. We are covering a broad range of topics today. This podcast, the Workology Podcast, is sponsored by the WorkologyCouncil.com. In today’s interview, we’re talking all things L&D, and I am joined by Elizabeth Greene. She’s the Director of Organizational Learning and Development at Lam Research. Elizabeth has nearly 20 years of experience delivering inclusive workforce advancement initiatives and organizational development strategies that improve the employee experience. In the past two decades, Elizabeth has worked at a leadership level in HR, specifically in learning and development, and for companies like Cold Stone Creamery, Make-A-Wish International and onsemi. Elizabeth, welcome to the Workology Podcast.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:02:05.18] Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:02:07.91] Let’s start a little bit with your background. How did you get into the HR and training and development space and how did you transition into the L&D world?

Elizabeth Greene : [00:02:18.98] So I think my journey to L&D was definitely not intentional. I sort of fell into it. So bear with me on this story. It has a couple twists and turns. But I received my bachelor’s degree in East Asian Studies at the University of Arizona. My intent was to be a professor. I wanted to teach East Asian studies at the U of A, but I wanted a little break before moving on to my master’s and then ultimately my PhD. So I took a manager job at a Cold Stone Creamery across the street from the university. And I’ve had, I’ve been working since I was 16 years old, and I worked all the way through college as well. So I had a really good background to be able to move into that coveted manager role, but had never been a manager. So I thought, okay, I’ll work a year and then go back to school. That year turned into three years and I won accolades and I beat store records and I made it up to the Cold Stone Creamery headquarters up in Scottsdale, Arizona, to participate in a manager training program that franchisees had the option of sending their managers to. And while I was at the headquarters, I met the vice president of training. Her name is Susan Landgraf. She later went on to be the Chief Learning Officer at Massage Envy and now owns her own business. And she’s my mentor to this day. But I was blown away by what she was doing for her career, her presence, the way she used humor and stories to engage us, and the learning.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:03:51.83] I had never been part of a learning experience like that before. I had only been in traditional school environments my whole life. I knew at that moment this is the type of role I want to be in. And I ended up moving from Tucson to Scottsdale to serve as an in-store trainer for Cold Stone Creamery headquarters. I was training franchisees on how to run the store. Add on five more years with the headquarters, and I worked my way up from an in-store trainer to leading the global learning and development strategy as the company grew into global markets. Ok, so are you ready, ready for this connection? Back to my undergraduate degree. Because I studied East Asian studies and I spoke Japanese, our CEO at Cold Stone Creamery asked me to lead our first global opening in the Japan market and take the franchisee and manager training we created in the US and adapt it for our Japan team. So I went to Japan for a month. I led the training for our business partners and managers and that was so successful that I was officially asked to join the international team at Cold Stone headquarters, and I led the training initiatives for each new country opening. So how fortunate in my early career to travel the world as part of my job, I went to Japan, Korea, China, Dubai, you know, a few times each. And that first move into L&D was the best decision I could have made.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:05:17.75] What a great story. I love how the restaurant, hospitality, and retail space I feel like really prepares you in ways that you don’t fully understand.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:05:31.13] Yeah.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:05:31.96] So I love that. And then my 13-year-old is all things Japan right now and, and all anime all the time. She’s learning Japanese, so I’m excited about telling her about our conversation. I don’t know how she’ll be because she’s 13, right? It kind of depends on the minute or it changes by the hour. But what an exciting way to bring all that, all that work and your education kind of full circle and together.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:06:00.68] That’s what I always tell people. I’m a mentor with young individuals in college and they’re trying to think about their next career path. And it, it never makes sense, right? It’s not going to make sense. So you go with your heart, you go with your passion, you go with your interest, and eventually it will lead you down the right path. If you stay with what you’re passionate about, you become good at it. And it was just I love telling that story because I think it sort of gives hope to people who got a degree and they can’t see the connection to their future. And it does circle back, so.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:06:34.10] I love that. Well, let’s talk a little bit about the current place that you’re working and the size and structure of the organization, and where HR and learning development sits into that structure.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:06:47.12] Sure. So I recently joined Lam Research. We are a leader in semiconductor manufacturing process technology. We have an awesome mission to drive semiconductor breakthroughs that define the next generation. So we’re a Fortune 500 organization with more than 16,000 employees globally. We’re very matrix and structure. Here at Lam, HR has a seat at the table, so our CHRO, Mary Hassett, is part of CEO staff. We have our HR business partners embedded in the organization globally with L&D sitting in the Centers of Excellence, along with our talent management group.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:07:27.43] Wow. That’s a good size.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:07:30.19] Yes, we grew, well, we’ve grown 45% over the past two years.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:07:36.16] Wow. Yeah. I mean, 45% during the middle of the pandemic. I know we’re going to talk about some different things, but having training and development and all the onboarding and stuff that goes along with all these new people, that’s a really critical part. And L&D plays a huge role in making sure that everybody learns and gets up to speed at the organization.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:08:02.32] Yeah, the good and the bad of what’s happened over the past couple of years. I mean, L&D definitely took a front row and had a seat at the table about these strategies, how to get people trained at scale. I mean, we had hired 3000 people in one year, so how do you scale what we’ve been doing at a local level to make sure that we’re meeting the needs of the employees coming in at the rate of pace that we have never seen before?

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:08:30.61] Well, let’s talk a little bit about that. Let’s start with technologies, because those are really important, especially when some people might be remote, hybrid, in-person. So what type of technologies for learning management are you currently using or maybe just in love with?

Elizabeth Greene : [00:08:46.30] Yeah, we’re in the process of implementing a new LMS, so we partnered with Cornerstone. We’re working on that project right now. We also have Percipio. If, if you’re not familiar, it’s sort of like the skill soft LXP. We have some on-demand portals like Coursera. We have VR training labs in our customer service group. We’re an SAP shop for HR systems. We also just are using BetterUp coaching app. We use Yammer, MS teams, and a leadership app as well for cohort and social sharing, and nudges, and easier access to our on-demand learning. And there’s always a wish list of more things that we want, but that’s all the tools we have in our toolbox at this time.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:09:33.85] That’s still pretty impressive, though. A lot of different pieces of technology in the overall stack for HR and the L&D side of the house.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:09:44.59] Yes, I think it’s, we are a technology company, so we want to make sure that we’re meeting the needs of our global employees and meeting them where they’re at. So we’ve got people all over the world, people in manufacturing, people in R&D labs, people on corporate offices. So we have to make sure that the technology that we offer is able to meet their specific needs as well. And it’s there have diverse needs. So we’ve got to be able to come to the table with delivering learning in a way that makes sense for them.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:10:14.62] Talk to me how you work with your internal teams to develop maybe a new learning and development program or coursework for a specific group. How does, how does that happen?

Elizabeth Greene : [00:10:25.81] So, and keep in mind I’m still new. What I’m seeing is at this time we’re pretty vendor heavy for our leadership and professional development programs, for example. So the structure of working with internal teams for those types of programs is minimal. You know, we align on goals and requirements, and expectations. Then my team worked with a vendor to either co-create or select something off the shelf that meets our needs to give a little bit more context here. We are a heavily decentralized L&D function, so we have people across the company doing L&D work in their own groups and regions and that mainly is a result of our size and running lean. So it’s often easier for groups to create their own programs than wait on my small but mighty team to create one. So one of my goals is to move towards more of a federated model for L&D and consolidate some of the redundant programs that are being run, gain economies of scale with our vendors, move towards vendors that can scale with us globally as we continue to grow. So that’s one answer. But back to your question about internally developed coursework. So if someone in the business is coming to us for a custom request, we have an intake form, we gather basic requirements and goals, and timeline.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:11:48.46] We assess our ability to meet their needs based on other projects we’re working on. We use internal SMEs [subject matter experts] a lot on the content side, so we have an, you know, internal SME pool. It’s important to identify and scout out who are those go-to people based on topic. And previously I’ve done that identification through like a skills taxonomy database where we’re actively tracking who are the experts in particular areas. So that visible and transparent view into people’s skills and capabilities is such a big benefit to L&D departments. And there’s tools now, Fuel50, Degreed, and many other platforms that can show you the skills across your organization. So that’s a little bit of insight into how we work with internal teams to create content. I will say too, if we can’t, so let’s say our timeline, you know, we’re just packed with these kind of one-off requests, we do own the instructional design, governance and the tools, so we will help people learn how to use the tools that are available to them, the authoring tools, and teach them best practices. And it will review storyboards and end product with them. So we have a couple different methods there.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:13:02.85] All this is incredibly helpful. I think if you want to just, just this question alone, to me it’s like, okay, what’s the process for somebody who is like, Hey, I need some training internally that you have at your organization and then leveraging those subject matter experts and maybe how that goes about at your organization, things like this. These are the, this is the reason, like, you might not think that what you just said was really important, but I’m like awesome. Like, everybody needs to hear this. That is looking for new ways or is starting to build out their learning development program and doesn’t know how to leverage different groups to be able to help grow their training program without a humongous learning team.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:13:46.56] Right. Yeah. And in the semiconductor space, we tend to run lean anyway. And I know what has happened over the past couple of years. People got leaner and we were asked to do more. So it is important to have self-service options when it makes sense to do so.

Break: [00:14:02.73] Let’s take a reset. This is Jessica Miller-Merrell, and you were listening to the Workology Podcast sponsored by the Workology Council, and you can learn more about that at WorkologyCouncil.com. Today, I’m talking with Elizabeth Greene. She’s the Director of Organizational Learning and Development at Lam Research.

Break: [00:14:19.92] The Workology Council is a mastermind community for HR leaders. We are a group of HR professionals with a common goal to succeed by leveraging the influence, resources, and expertise of others on an annual basis. This will be the HR business tribe that you’ve wanted to be a part of for your entire career. Learn more and apply at WorkologyCouncil.com.

How To Align L&D Programs With Organizational Goals

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:14:46.56] Talk a little bit more about how you work with your executive team and those HR business partners that you talked about to ensure that the training that you’re building or when you’re working with the subject matter experts is in alignment with the larger organizational goals.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:15:01.17] Yeah, good question. I mean, I think it’s important to build the L&D strategy from the organizational goals and work backwards from there. If we can’t align our programs and outcomes to a bigger picture organizational goal, then we are at risk for losing funding or becoming that reactive function where we’re just always responding to last-minute urgent requests and not providing that real strategic value. So I do believe that the key here is staying close to the HR business partners. They are already aligned with the business unit. They understand the pain points and areas of opportunities they’re doing, the workforce planning. They’re having strategic conversations with our business leaders. That relationship is critical to getting the L&D alignment with the organizational goals right. When it comes to executive leaders, now, I know each organization has a different structure, but we typically go through our HR business partners and respect that relationship. When it comes to executive leaders, my experience has been the alignment that matters the most is our KPIs, ensuring that what is getting reported up to the board are metrics that matter to them. So I will never forget this quote from, I don’t mean to quote, but I just love this one by Jack Welch: “An organization’s ability to learn and translate that learning into action rapidly is the ultimate competitive advantage.” So we want to make sure that the relationship there with our HR business partners is in line and lockstep all the way.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:16:36.03] I love that. And what a great quote, too. I mean, sometimes I think we lose sight of the training components in the pieces and making sure that all of these things are in alignment. I think right now a lot of HR leaders and business leaders, their focus is on trying to get people in the door, trying to find them, entice them away from another organization, or bring them in. But now, now that we got them and they’ve said yes, now we need to make sure that they’re trained and they feel confident and comfortable to do the job that we ask them to do.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:17:09.47] Exactly. And all of the studies that are coming out from probably the beginning of time until now, one of the reasons people leave an organization is a lack of growth opportunities, a lack of career development. So we want to make sure upon entry people understand that there is a plan for you. We have development opportunities for you, and that’s a really important part of getting people in the door and keeping them.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:17:34.19] So you mentioned earlier that you have grown dramatically during this pandemic, and so I wanted to talk and ask you about how maybe some Agile methodologies or change management frameworks have been applied into the way that you and the organization maybe are leveraging learning and development.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:17:57.64] Yeah. I have a couple of views on this particular question. So one is being an agile L&D function. Second is using Agile methodology in our design delivery learning experience. So a couple of years ago when COVID started and companies were becoming leaner, laying people off, doing furloughs, encouraging early retirement. I realized that I needed to create cross-functional capabilities on my team. So when you run lean, you need to be able to do multiple things. So instead of having a learning experience designer, a facilitator, a program manager, all in separate roles, I started on a mission to cross-train. Now, this does not negate the need to understand your employees individual strengths and passions, but this methodology supports the way job rolls are moving, which is away from narrow skill sets and one-dimensional roles, and towards this broader capability model. So everyone on my team was skilled at, we train them to be skilled at program management. Everyone was, could do basic functions and our LMS. My learning experience designer can now do some light BILT facilitation. So we created a more agile team that got rid of the bottleneck of work that the old model had created. Right? Everything got stuck at the instructional design, right? Everyone got stuck there.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:19:21.19] So we wanted to really clear out that and be a bit more agile to meet, you know, we had to pivot to, to the needs of the business and meet their needs quicker. So that was one thing and I think we all know over the past two years we’ve had to work through a lot of uncertainty and ambiguity and be ready for anything. And that new model allowed us to do that. The second part of the answer around like Agile methodology when it comes to design delivery experiences, I think, this came to light for me as an important topic when SAM replaced ADDIE, right? Several years ago for instructional designers, we all started seeing that we need a more iterative approach to design, and that actually works. And so we’re not using things like a Scrum Master Protocol. We haven’t really implemented design sprints, but I would say having that cross-functional L&D team that understands project management best practices helps in how do you prioritize work to focus on completing that within shorter timeframes, ensuring that projects align with business strategy, focusing on speed and flexibility and collaboration is really the key.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:20:35.95] Perfect. And I’m also thinking as you’re talking and I love that you mentioned ADDIE, because I feel like that is something that is an important part of obviously learning and development, but it is something that HR leaders can use and business leaders can use in their every day in their work. I mean, certainly we do and in my business. But I wanted to talk about maybe any standard operating procedures or things, other training procedures, maybe that changed because of the pandemic for, for you and the team.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:21:10.51] I wouldn’t say any SOPs changed. I think like most organizations, we made that quick switch over from ILT, WLT, and we’re now working on the hybrid options to come. I would say the fast switch was necessary, but now we’re working on making the learning experience better over time, so. And I don’t see this changing. So the important thing here, many organizations are now adopting either fully remote or hybrid work options. And we’re now prepared to deliver our programs in a variety of ways. And if you think about the budget savings over the past two years on not flying people in and facilitators to one place, not paying for food and travel costs, can we really show the business case that justifies going back to that ILT model and the budget required to do that? I think for some programs, no, I think for other programs, maybe. So, I would say the data that you can pull in relation to the levels of evaluation can show if there is a difference in outcomes based on your delivery methodology. So what were your levels of evaluation during the ILT format versus the VILT or during the hybrid? If the outcomes are not being met, then I think you have a case for change.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:22:30.40] But training now looks completely different, right? So I don’t know if we’ll ever go back to the way that it was before. Other things we’ve changed more methodology than SOP, but we added a cohort methodology for social learning. You know, added to several the ILT leadership programs. We wanted those social touchpoints, reflection, and focus discussions. A lot of learning shifted from synchronous to asynchronous during COVID. So taking advantage of that AI-driven learning platforms that guide learners to content along with our team curating specific learning journeys for DEI or leadership core value pathways, competency pathways. Just really opening up the online learning space to allow employees to self-drive their learning, to access that breadth of content, and find what inspires them. At my last company, I remember we saw a spike of about 134% increase in online learning consumption during the first year of COVID. It was phenomenal numbers that we had never seen before. So it will be interesting to see how learner behaviors and preferences shift over the next couple of years. But I can tell you after COVID, I’m confident that we’ll be ready to handle anything that comes our way.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:23:45.76] That’s the beauty of if there’s anything good that can come out of this pandemic is we did it and our organizations are still here. And, and we’re intact mostly as, as individuals. I did want to ask you, because you did mention VR a little bit earlier in the podcast. Is that something that you all have been doing at the organization for a while pre-pandemic?

Elizabeth Greene : [00:24:13.72] Yeah, it’s in our customer service group and they have VR labs and that’s, you know, training on our equipment for customers. And there’s this whole certification process. And yes, that was started before the pandemic. We have not adapted it across the company for other use cases yet, but I’m sure we will.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:24:33.79] I feel like a lot more organizations are going to be expanding or adding virtual reality into their training program because as we are going hybrid and I was talking to somebody about this yesterday, the experience for in-person versus virtual like on a Zoom meeting in terms of collaboration can be incredibly challenging. But if everybody is in a virtual environment together, whether they’re in person or remote, the experience and the opportunity to contribute and learn is the same when we’re in the VR world.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:25:10.57] Yeah, I’ve been interested in VR for several years now and talk to some of the top vendors to see, because I remember when Walmart, for example, started VR training for their associates and I heavily looked into, I got to demo with their experience and what that looks like. And it was more about learning a skill that is difficult to do on the job because either they don’t want you on the floor messing around or causing mistakes, or it’s too risky, you know, in a manufacturing environment to create a scenario that could put you in danger. When we’re talking about safety standards, there’s very different use cases. I would say back then. Now it’s shifting towards collaboration and mindshare and being. I mean, it’s definitely I feel like it’s, it’s shifting. It’s a different use case now. So it’ll be interesting to see how organizations want to buy into VR and kind of a new methodology.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:26:05.61] Somebody made a comment to me in a Facebook group that I’m in where we have lots of debates, but they made a statement and said there’s no need for any in-person networking or any in-person training because we have the metaverse now. And I was like, I just don’t see everyone who listens to this podcast going, Hey, I’m only going to join the metaverse and learn and connect and, and do all those things. I don’t think we’re there yet.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:26:31.83] Not yet. I did some of that. I demoed some of the metaverse-type of learning, and it was a coaching example, and I was in the room and my coach was not a real person. It was real, a real person voice, but it was, it was an avatar and I could not connect. And maybe I’m the wrong generation to connect to it, but I think we have to be open. I mean, and that’s what I say, why we use so many different types of technology here at Lam Research is because we want to be able to accommodate the type of learner who does thrive in the metaverse. I mean, my kids are playing roadblocks. I have twin boys who are seven. They’re in roadblocks and they’re, that’s it. They’re avatars and they have friends, quote-unquote, friends who are just avatars. And so as our kids are growing up in a metaverse, then learning in a metaverse might be a natural thing for them. I don’t think it is for us, but for us to understand and be prepared for that next generation to come in and how they prefer to learn and what that looks like, it’s going to be ready for it.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:27:36.78] I agree. And my daughter is a roadblocks fan and is, she’s got all her YouTube channel and her Discord servers and communities that she’s on. And it’s really just how she prefers to communicate and interact with people. And she has a global community of people that she is connected to.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:27:56.70] Yes.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:27:56.97] Very different than you and I were growing up.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:28:01.08] Yes, exactly. And if you talk to I don’t want to stereotype on generations, but just from what I’m seeing and hearing, there are certain generations who only want ILT still and when can we go back to ILT? And then I have other individuals who never want to go back to ILT, who appreciate the synchronous learning together but want it through Zoom. I mean, there’s so many different factors here. We want our learning to be individualized. We want to meet the needs of everyone. But as that expands, it becomes more complicated. So it takes a deeper dive into our strategies for sure to figure this out.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:28:38.22] I feel like this kind of shifts into our last question here, just talking about accessibility and inclusion when it comes to our training and development, particularly DEI. So what are, what are you seeing in terms of learning programs that are inclusive and accessible for everyone?

Elizabeth Greene : [00:28:57.90] I could talk about this for 150 hours on this topic, so feel free to cut me off. I think all of our learning regardless needs to be, you know, three things relevant, accessible and impactful. If we cannot meet those three things in any of our programs, we have to assess what we’re doing. So I’m very passionate about kind of that intersection of DEI and learning and development, and I think we need to ground ourselves. So I think DEI is the foundation to which L&D needs to ground itself. And the alignment doesn’t just happen, you know, it comes through purpose and intention. So I have several things I can talk about here. I know that think about the DEI as a topic and think about the integration between the two and how we create kind of accessible and inclusive learning environments. I’ll talk to those a little bit together. I know oftentimes we have DEI training. It’s launched as a requirement across the company or to managers the next year. And then we have a different DEI topic, a more elevated topic that that modularized approach to DEI training has served its purpose for sure, and L&D in that context typically helps with the content creation, vendor selection, maybe the facilitation, maybe launch from our system. But what if we took elements of our DEI training and weaved it into all of our L&D programs? So it’s not like two separate things. But I, what I encourage L&D functions to do is scan your programs for gender-coded terms. Make sure the examples used and the case studies are representative of diverse individuals. Address the barriers that might be built into your learning ecosystem by recognizing moments of exclusion and solving for those barriers that prevent equity. It might be things that you’re not thinking about, but it could be as simple as only high potential access to certain programs.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:31:04.14] Only job grid or job level hierarchy access, assessments and testing strategies that might have potential bias built into them. Not building psychological safety in your classrooms. You know, just a few examples. Removing those barriers to inclusion requires that all of our actions support the needs of learners with a variety of backgrounds, cultures and abilities. So inclusion actually benefits and applies to all employees. So I think really look at your design. Are you using inclusive or universal instructional design theory, human-centred design standards to create accessible learning for all? And that includes, you know, closed captioning translations. If you’re doing video, do you have pause and can you slow down or speed up the audio? Do you have downloadable transcripts, diverse representation images and case studies, etc.? So be intentional about social elements too, that’s part of the design of the learning journey that supports practice, reflection, and application, and that sense of belonging. That’s big, I think for L&D groups to think about is how do we provide a sense of belonging amid a desire for individuality. So that’s sort of one of the key topics here. And accessible learning also means meeting the learner where they are. And that’s why we have so many different types of tools and technologies here. I think making the learning available in the point of need, in the modalities that best fits the way the employees learn is really important. And I cannot, and without talking about manager engagement, you know, a strong manager that is engaged in the employee learning that drives engagement, retention, skill development, organizational adaptability, and innovation, I think managers are the key to creating accountability around the learning activities, and instilling that coaching mindset is essential for all leaders. It’s the key capability that underpins an equitable learning culture.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:33:11.85] I appreciate all this because it’s good to hear from someone like yourself to help maybe reinforce or to help communicate to the executive team or leadership or whoever about why inclusion and accessibility matters. I mean, we should be thinking about this in every part of the workplace, but especially when people are learning and growing. And I think it sometimes it gets forgotten.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:33:41.91] It’s true. And we have to be careful about the lens that we’re looking at and understanding our personas. So, for example, we’re in manufacturing and we’re a global company. Sometimes when you’re designing from, quote-unquote, the headquarters, you forget about someone on the manufacturing floor. How are they going to learn? Is the environment that you’re setting, is the context that you’re providing, are the use cases inclusive of their world in manufacturing? Or someone in another country, are you making sure you’re culturally aware and sensitive to some of your terms and examples? So I think it’s really important and the feedback loop side of that is critical. You need to hear from the employees and be open to that feedback. That open feedback loop the iterative process to make those changes and pivot is a big part of this as well.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:34:39.36] Elizabeth, it’s been great. I have really enjoyed this conversation. Where can people go to connect more with you and learn more about the work you’re doing?

Elizabeth Greene : [00:34:48.24] I would say check me out on LinkedIn. Elizabeth Greene with an e. I post a lot of articles and comments and I follow a lot of other L&D professionals to see what they’re posting. But feel free to contact me there. I’m happy to chat further.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:35:04.23] Awesome. Thank you again.

Elizabeth Greene : [00:35:05.82] Yeah, thank you.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:35:07.23] Learning and development is so critical for closing skill gaps and retaining our employees, especially in the current talent market base. As I mentioned, the lowest number of unemployment claims in the last 50 years. That is what we’re facing. And we’re having to hire talent for in-person, remote, and hybrid opportunities, and it is competitive across that. So we want to find ways to be able to retain those people. And that starts with onboarding, training, continuous learning and growth opportunities for our current employees. That way, we don’t have to go out and find new people to fill those roles because it’s hard as heck right now. So I appreciate Elizabeth taking her time and her experience to talk with us on the podcast today. I absolutely enjoyed it. And I want to thank you for joining us on the Workology Podcast. It is sponsored by the Worology Council. You can go to WorkologyCouncil.com. This podcast is for the disruptive workplace leader who is tired of the status quo. My name is Jessica Miller-Merrell. Until next time you can visit Workology.com to learn more about the podcast and listen to all our previous episodes.

Connect with Elizabeth Greene.